(upbeat music) - Welcome to Forum 360, for a global outlook with a local view.

I'm Leslie Ungar, your host today.

150 years ago, a French writer wrote the words we now quote as, "The more things change, the more they stay the same," or do they?

Our guest today has made five career changes, and he is still in his 50s.

In a career change, what stays the same and what is different?

Depending on your age, statistically, you will make 1.9 to 5.7 career changes in your lifetime.

Our guest today has been an attorney, an entrepreneur, a sports agent, a brand expert, a financial guru, and now dean of the Business College at the University of Akron.

One thing the pandemic has urged us to do is to think differently.

Whether it is about the services that he offered or the actual career choice he made, our guest continues to think differently.

How will he bring the concept of Marilyn Monroe, Mother Teresa, and cooking lessons to business students?

We are thrilled to welcome to Forum 360, R.J. Nemer.

When you think about it, what does a dean do?

So I am thrilled to have you here as the new- - Thank you.

- Dean of the College of Business.

- Thanks for having me.

- But let me start out by asking you, what does a dean do?

- I have to go back for a second, because when you doing your intro, and you said has had five careers, I'm like, I have?

Because it really didn't dawn on me till you said that, Leslie, but- - [Leslie] Yes.

- Yes, I guess I have.

And what does a dean do?

- [Leslie] Yes.

- It was a question I was asking myself up until two weeks ago.

- Do you have the answer yet or is it gonna take a while?

- Yes, I mean, yes and no.

- Okay.

- Very much the face of the College of Business, figuring out how to invigorate the brand, in some aspects revitalize the brand, become engaged with the students, hear what the students have to say in terms of the offerings, and their experience.

At the end of the day, they're a customer.

We're providing a service.

The landscape is competitive, it's costly, and people want value for what they're paying.

And so helping to think through that, do I get involved with the truly academic sort of questions of curriculum?

Not so much.

But thinking about how we increase enrollment- - [Leslie] Okay.

- Improve the experience of students and diversify our student base, both in terms of geography and demographics, is really kind of the three pillars that are important to me.

- So let me ask you.

A few months back, we had the new superintendent of Akron public schools.

And one thing I learned in having her as a guest is that the board, the school board is the one that comes up with the vision, and the superintendent is to implement the vision.

So in your case, who comes up with the vision of say how you increase enrollment or how you satisfy students?

Do you come up with it and implement it, or is it a collaborative effort, or who comes up with the vision?

- In academia it's all about shared governance, right?

So we're all on the same boat rowing in the same direction.

I would say it is a collaborative exercise.

I probably have brought more atypical things to the table than they're used to hearing so far.

And that comes from an entrepreneurial sort of background of why aren't we thinking about marketing it this way or messaging it way?

I don't think that perhaps historically they've thought about what's our narrative in terms of how we're gonna push out messaging.

So when I interviewed there, and it was a long interview process.

It was a very atypical interview process.

And frankly, I hadn't interviewed for a job since 1995.

So it was really new for me to go through the interview.

- So 1995 would've been when you were interviewing for your first job as an attorney.

- Yes, and haven't interviewed since then.

And so going through an interview- - Although, excuse me, but I have to ask you.

Isn't it like an interview when you are trying to get an athlete as a sports agent to be your client?

- Kind of.

Yeah, in a certain respect.

When you know that relationship is so personal, you're really just trying to see if you're on the same page, if you connect.

Because one of the things that I, and this is getting us a little bit sidetracked, but I'll come back it.

When I was a sports agent, initially when I started, Leslie, I would've signed anybody because I was poor.

And so I just needed to have clients.

Throughout my career, and then there was one particular case what was sort of an epiphany to me.

I was consulting for a company, and I had a player who really needed a deal, but the player was just odd, a peculiar personality, awkward around people, but he really wanted a deal.

And I was at this company, and the chief marketing offer said to me, do you have anybody else?

We could really use more visibility in another golfer.

Now, as the agent, it would've seemed ideal.

But I thought to myself, this client is odd.

If I do this deal, I will lose credibility with the sponsor.

So I said, "No, I don't."

And that was a very difficult and long plane ride home for me because I felt disingenuous.

I hadn't advocated for my client.

I hadn't done a good job.

But it was an epiphany to me that I decided at that point, I will never sign anybody that I don't wanna have dinner with, because if I didn't genuinely enjoy having dinner with the person, how could I ever sell him or her?

- Okay, so let me ask you.

Let's set, you're now dean.

Let's set that aside, and let's go back 20 years.

Okay, so you are in law school, and you become an estate attorney, correct?

Okay, when did you have the epiphany, gee, I think I wanna be a sports agent?

- So when I was going through law school, actually the reason I went to law school was because of another Akron, our University of Akron alumni Eddie Elias.

longtime sports agent, was the pioneer behind the PBA, which in our generation- - [Leslie] Professional Bowlers Association.

- Professional Bowlers Association.

And before there was a million different ways to watch or consume sports in your media, there were three networks.

- And you can see it every Saturday.

- On ABC.

So he was my idol and I wanted to be him.

And he was guiding me along and said, "Now you go to law school."

And we had talked about me going to work for him.

And right before, literally the night before my final exam in law school, he had this massive incapacitating stroke.

And I thought, well, it's not in the cards for me to work for him.

And so I went into the practice of law, and I was going in on Monday and wishing it was Friday.

And you do that for two years.

It was my 30th birthday.

I had written a business plan to start a sports agency.

It was naive.

I didn't know what I didn't know, but I felt if I just got that one moment, I could make it.

And I was in my office.

It was my 30th birthday.

I looked at the business plan.

I remember looking out onto Main Street, and I thought to myself, there's something more for me in this world.

And I went down to the managing partner and said, "It's my 30th day, and as a gift to myself, I'm resigning.

I'm gonna start a sports agency."

- Now, do you just go up to golfers and say, "Hey, I wanna be your agent?"

- Well, that's what I thought.

(both laughing) - Because when I started my business, I thought I could just go up to people, and they were just gonna clamor to- - Yeah, no, they didn't.

- Nah, uh-uh.

- But I just kept trying to network.

I just kept trying.

- And so in your words, in the golfing world, and let me just ask you briefly in kind of a yes or no, are you passionate about golf?

Or is- - Sort of.

- Sort of.

- I mean, I wouldn't say I'm like die hard, eat, breathe, live it.

I love the fact that it- - But you picked golf.

You could of picked football.

- Well, I picked golf because I figured that I could relate more to that athlete.

- Okay.

- I knew enough about it growing up around it.

I played casually, but I'm terrible.

But I felt like, also it was at the precipice of Tiger Woods just emerging.

And I remember looking, when I'd see it on TV, and I'd kind of pay attention to the galleries, and I thought, wow, they're younger.

They're diverse.

This one person could really change the landscape.

This may be the right time to get into this sport.

This sport may see a resurgence.

And that's what- - So you go up to golfers and just say hey.

Way before this, as I mentioned, I showed horses, and there was a golfer, Jim Simon.

I don't know if you remember the name, but his sister was in the horse world.

And we used to keep her horse for her.

So you just go up to a Jim Simon or a whomever, Rocco, and say, "Gee, I wanna be your agent."

Like, how, can you give us just in a couple sentences a process for how you become an agent to someone?

- For me, and I've done a number of lectures, and I always start the lecture as a, I wouldn't recommend this because I didn't know.

I just kept calling and talking to as many people as I could.

By happenstance, literally, I met somebody who at the time was bartending down at Portage Lakes, who happened to have gone to Duke, and who had happened to play for the golf team, and who happened to know somebody who just had what was then called their Nike Tour Card.

So I asked him, would you be willing to introduce me to him?

And he said, "I can.

I don't know what he'll do."

And I flew down to Florida and I met this player.

His name is Joe Ogilvie, who happened to be on the PGA tour for 17 or so years.

But I met with him, and I said, "Here's my vision."

And he said, "You just quit your job?"

And I said, "Yes."

And he said, "Do you have a contract?"

I said, "No."

I said, "But I'll tell you what, I haven't gotten around a writing one, but if you'll give me six months, let's do it on a handshake and see what I could do for you."

Shook hands.

17 years later, I still never had a contract with him.

He stayed my client the entire time, but from that one client, it was, and I could bore you with hours of stories of, and then I met this person, then I met this.

- Yes, but that's what networking is.

- But I just connect the dots.

- Okay, so- - I just connect the dots.

- We have to leave golf, but I have to ask you just a couple questions.

- Sure.

- About the athletes.

To be at the finest, whether it's the Olympics, whether it's football, whether it's golf, do you think from your bird's eye view, does it take more mental or more physical skills?

- In golf?

- In golf.

To be a PGA player.

- Wow, that's a great question.

I would say that answer has probably changed.

When I initially started- - [Leslie] Okay.

- I would've said brains.

As the game has changed, and it's about length, and strength, and stamina, and Tiger really did change the way a golfer physically looked.

I would say it is now really pretty equal.

It may even tip a little bit more on the physical side.

- Okay, a couple other questions about golf before we leave.

Male agents have represented women, professional athletes.

Do you really think that women will be able to represent male athletes to the same degree?

- Oh absolutely.

- So it won't be, what we often used to hear is, women can't go in the locker room.

Well, men can't go in the female locker room, but do you think that that is a glass ceiling that is shattered?

- Oh, absolutely.

I didn't really go in the locker room all that much.

I mean, most, when I went to events, you're usually on the driving range.

And I know a couple women, particularly in golf, who are really successful, very successful and who represent world class players.

I would never say it was based on gender as a consideration at all.

- But one more question.

In Jerry McGuire there is a point where one of the professional athletes says there's no loyalty.

What would you, as a sports agent, did you feel that there was loyalty?

- I was lucky because the people that I represented were loyal.

I had my company, before I sold it to William Morris, had my company for 17 years.

I never had a client leave.

- Wow.

- So for me, yes.

Do I think it is a business that is a replete with unscrupulous people?

Absolutely.

It is tough.

It is vindictive.

It is dishonest.

It's harsh.

It's very harsh.

I just try to stay true to my narrative.

And again, my narrative was, I wanna sign people that I wanna have dinner with.

- Which is not a bad way for anyone to do business in any profession, right?

- No.

Because if you really do care about the person, if you like them, we started talking about it through interviewing, the true purpose of interviewing is I always really wanna get to know you, Leslie.

I wanna find out what makes you tick because we're gonna be in the trenches together.

In its purest form, that really is the way business should be conducted.

- On that note, that perfect note, let me reintroduce our guest today is R.J. Nemer who is the new Dean at the College of Business at the University of Akron.

He has been a practicing attorney, a sports agent, an entrepreneur, a brand expert, and now a dean.

One last question about being a sports agent.

One of my very first guests, maybe 17 or so years ago when I started hosting the show, one of my very first guests was an attorney who was a sports agent.

- Oh, no kidding.

- Yes, and he came with the backup quarterback to Terry Bradshaw.

- Okay.

- Who I will never forget.

He said he has the best job in the world to be the backup quarterback that never gets (R.J. laughs) gets in the game 'cause you never get hurt, right?

But I remember I asked him, "what does a sports agent do?"

And he said, "I help my clients sleep well at night."

- That's one way to look at it.

- So if I asked you, what does a sports agent do?

You're talking about having a major at the University of Akron where I can go and become a sports agent.

So what does a sports agent do?

- So the major we're talking about is sport management.

- Okay.

- Which is a little bit broader.

And sport analytics, which is all about the statistics and numbers, and which is, that would be a whole other show we could do on that, Leslie.

What does a sports agent do?

I try to take things off of my client's place, plate, to allow him or her to maximize their potential when they played.

It was about also finding diverse sources of income.

Whether it was through being a spokesperson for a brand, being public appearance, endorsements, all sorts of things.

- We, I think, I can't speak for everybody, but I always tell my clients, I think I speak for the general public.

We think that athletes have this wonderful life, and I'm sure in many ways it is a wonderful life, but what is something that would surprise us about the life of a professional golfer?

- It's lonely.

They, because they're traveling a lot without their family.

It's hotel, after hotel, after hotel, after chain restaurant, chain restaurant, chain restaurant, all over the world.

And I traveled an awful lot as well internationally, but when I would go, I maybe was gone for a week, sometimes two.

They would be gone for months.

And you end up, FaceTime has certainly helped, or the way that you could see people on screens has certainly helped a bit, but it's still not sitting down with your loved ones at the end of the day and really sharing a moment, or sharing a movie, or and a bowl of popcorn.

So it's lonely.

It's, and even the life of a sports agent, I think there was a certain connotation of glamor and glitz to it.

Yeah, there is certainly some cool swag to it, but as I would say to people, it ain't all peaches and cream.

At the end of the day, it's work.

It's managing a multitude of personalities in terms of the different people you're dealing with.

Because you have the athlete, their significant other, their entourage, their other advisors, and you're quarterbacking all.

And they're not, people are not adapting their personality to suit you.

It's a vice versa.

So you become a chameleon.

And what's interesting is, I remember one of my clients retired, and he's a great guy.

And he said to me at one point, "We're such good friends."

And in my mind, I thought know, "No, I'm your friend."

- [Leslie] Yes.

- But if I sat down and said to you, what's my favorite color, when's my birthday, they wouldn't know.

- Yes, exactly.

I have found the same thing as a coach.

And every once in a while, I'll have a client say, "Well, gee, why didn't I know that about you?"

And I'll think to myself, because I know everything about you, right?

You think you know about me, but it is really one way.

- It's a one way.

And I remember talking to one of my clients and he said, I think I shared something, and he said, "Oh, I had no idea."

He said, "Why didn't you tell me that before?"

And I said, "Because it's not my job."

I said, "It's my job to know everything about you, and to make sure you don't know anything about me."

- [Leslie] I get that, I do.

- So it's atypical that way, but it was a wonderful career.

I mean, over 20 years.

After I sold my company and was the global head at IMG, and when my contract was coming to an end, I thought, you know what, this has been a great run.

- [Leslie] It has.

- I wanna go out kind of on top.

I knew that my age, it was a younger person's game, and I wanted something different.

And so things lined up well for me.

- So how will, if you look out the next two years, the next four years, how will the College of Business at the University of Akron be different with you as dean versus if it would've been Joe Smith, or Mary Smith, or someone else?

- I think we're going to get messaging out in a different way where people really understand that the University of Akron is not a regional only sort of institution.

The research that they do, the faculty, it's all, I mean, Leslie, it's world class.

And I think I have a more acute understanding of how to take that to the masses, to brand it, to create the narrative, and to share it.

What I, during the course of my interviews, one of the things I said to President Miller was, I said, "I could tell you the things that you don't have a problem with.

You don't have a problem with the curriculum.

You don't have a problem with the faculty.

You don't have a problem with the offerings.

Those are all A+, A+, A+.

The big problem you have is nobody knows about it."

And you could have the wonderful- - Nobody wants to be the best kept secret, right?

- That's a great way to put it.

And unfortunately they have been.

- So when I, and decades ago and I went to the University of Akron twice.

- As did I.

(R.J. laughing) - We were known for rubber polymers.

- Right.

- And we had students from all over.

My parents used to kid me.

If I invited someone over, they'd be like, what country is he from?

Because we were, now is sports management something that is able to draw that diverse from other states and other countries?

- Well, I think so.

Right now, the number one sport management major or graduate program- - Okay.

- Is actually at OU.

- Okay.

- Which is remarkable to me.

They're in Athens.

So it's not like people are being drawn there because it's New York or Los Angeles.

They're going to Athens for a specific reason because of how it's been marketed and branded, and it's worth the journey, if you will.

- [Leslie] Okay.

- So from an Akron standpoint, I wanna compete.

I wanna be in that space.

It's not the only thing I wanna do, but I think it's where we can make our mark and have a ripple effect.

- And how do lifelong academics at the University of Akron, have you gotten a feeling, it's just been a couple weeks, but have you gotten a feeling how they feel about a non-academic as dean of the business college?

- I think I ask a lot of questions, and what I'm trying to understand, because I don't have a background in research, which is a huge part of what faculty do, and it's incredibly important.

And admittedly, I didn't have an understanding of the importance of it, the commitment it required, and that comes down a little bit to messaging.

It's a really well-kept secret.

But I think there has been, all I can tell you right now is all I have felt is mutual respect.

- Great.

- I wanna ask a lot of questions and listen.

They're asking a lot of questions and listening.

And I think we're all starting to see, you know what, if we take the collective best that we each have to offer, it's gonna be a really nice complimentary sort of synergy we can create.

And I'm doing this motion to round out the capabilities.

- I wanna ask you in the minutes we have remaining, I found some quotes of yours, and I'm gonna ask you to give me a short explanation, okay, for each one of them.

Okay?

After your five year contract at IMG, you decided it was time for personal rebirth.

In a sentence, how would you define personal rebirth?

- Challenging yourself to step out of your comfort zone so you can grow in a different way.

- You said, I think sleepless nights every now and again are a good thing because they sort of make you feel alive.

In a sentence.

- I think you have to, once again, push yourself a little bit to have those butterflies and think to yourself, is this right?

I'm a little scared.

Monotony, mediocrity, that's, those things bore me.

- What we're trying to be for our clients is not just an advisor for financial affairs but a game plan for life.

You could kind of say that about students also in college.

- 100%.

- So how do you convey that to either a prospective client when you are an agent, how do you convey that to a prospective student?

- I think it happens one conversation at a time.

- Okay.

In just a minute or so I have left, you're kind of like an athlete that played for a lot of different teams, and then they get inducted into the Hall of Fame, and you have to pick one team.

- I'm not sure about that.

- So if you had to pick one thing on your gravestone out of your different careers of agent, and an entrepreneur, and dean, what would you pick?

- He was a great father.

- One thing you know for sure.

- Oh my goodness, that's a tough one to answer.

One thing I know for sure is that the sun will come up tomorrow.

- I hope so.

And what gives you hope?

And this may be coming out of COVID time, what gives you hope?

- What gives me hope is seeing my kids excited about what they wanna do with their lives and their future.

- And now that, my kids means 20,000 other kids.

- It's going to.

It sure does.

Yes, yes, and yes.

- Okay.

(Leslie laughing) One of the most overused phrases today is 'think out of the box.'

Just because a person says it, doesn't mean that they actually do it.

Our guest today is a lifelong example of someone who thinks out of the box.

At 30, he quit career as an estate attorney.

He founded a sports agency.

After 22 years as a sports agent, he sold his business, started to build a new brand.

As of January 2022, he is the dean of the College of Business at the University of Akron.

Golf was, he said, 90% of his life.

Now, perhaps students are 90% of his life.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The pandemic has been hard on everyone.

Universities have struggled.

Businesses have struggled.

This year's Super Bowl Budweiser commercial ends with the words 'In the home of the brave, down never means out.'

After talking with our guest today, I feel that way about the future.

I hope you do also.

We thank our guest today, R.J. Nemer.

I'm Leslie Ungar.

Thank you for joining us today on Forum 360 for your global outlook with a local view.

- [Announcer] Forum 360 is brought to you by John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, The Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, The Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications, and Forum 360 supporters.