I am your host, Ashira Nelson, and this is PBS Western Reserve Forum 360, where we have a global outlook from a local view.

Today I'm interviewing Leia’ Love, an artist blessed with many, many talents, including a powerful and transformative work of areola tattooing, which we're going to get into all of that today.

This form of medical tattooing helps individuals restore confidence and reclaim their bodies after experiencing breast surgery, cancer, or a traumatic event.

Today's conversation, we’ll learn exactly what areola tattooing is, how Leah got started in this meaningful work, and the education and training required to answer this field.

We'll also talk about the emotional impact this service has on clients, and how family members and partners can better support their loved ones in this healing journey.

So hello, Leia’.

- Hello.

- How are you?

- I am wonderful.

Thank you for having me.

- You’re normally in this seat, so how does it feel?

- This is going to be exciting.

- Okay.

Okay.

So thank you for being here as a guest.

You're normally one of our amazing hosts.

Can you share a little bit about your background and what led you into the beauty world?

- Yeah.

So I am a licensed cosmetologist.

- Okay.

- And I've been licensed for about 22 years.

And during that time, I'm constantly looking at the different trends, things that are coming through.

And I stumbled upon microblading at the time, which was about 2015 or so.

- Okay.

- And so, I went to a conference and at the conference there was a lady there talking about areola tattooing.

And I had never heard— And this was like, at least 6 or 7 years after I had been microblading.

- Okay.

- And so, the lady was just talking about how women were left after mastectomy, and I've heard the word mastectomy, but I never really understood what it was.

When you have a mastectomy, this is how your skin is left afterwards.

They take everything.

They take your nipple, your areola.

They can even take all the tissue.

So depending on if you decide to get reconstruction, which can be an implant or any type of tissue, then it's just flat.

Other than that, it literally looks like this.

- Okay.

So, I was like, oh my gosh, I can use my artistry to help them with tattooing.

And that's how I just initially found out about it.

And when I did, you know, I get really intrigued with things.

- Yes.

Yes.

- But I was obsessed with this for some reason.

So I call up my job because I just really feel like I have a purpose in doing this.

And it's something that I know God has called me to do.

Wow.

- Wow.

I've been seeing you on social media and everything with this, and I'm just, like, amazed at how you can take your talent from owning a salon.

Honestly, going back before that, marketing, because let's not forget marketing to owning your own salon and now microblading and then leading into this, that is truly amazing.

So for everyone who's not familiar like you said, I wasn't familiar.

What exactly is areola tattooing and who is it for?

- So first defining what the areola is, because a lot of people still don't know what that is.

- Please educate.

- So your areola is the colored part of your breast.

And then you have the nipple on top of that.

So those are those two pieces.

- Okay.

- From there, areola tattooing takes a tattoo machine and we implant pigment in there, and I design it in the shape and the look.

And so the realism or the 3D effect of it is that it looks like it's protruding or popping out.

- Okay.

And I see you have some there, so do you want to like, just show us as you're describing it?

- Yeah, so this is what would look like would be protruding out, but it would be on flat skin.

So it would still remain flat, but it would look like there was kind of a bump or raise to it.

- Wow.

- So that's what actual areola tattooing is.

- Okay.

- And a lot of times people ask me, well, what's the difference between you and a traditional tattoo artist?

The traditional tattoo artist is going to go in deeper with their layers.

So that's why the... And they use a different pigment as well.

So their ink is going to last a lot longer.

It's going to be deeper in the skin and so that's why it's going to be more permanent.

- Okay.

- Ours is doesn’t go in as much which, a common question is, are you going to hit my implant?

We're not going to hit your implant because we're not going in that deep.

So this is why you would have to come back in for a retouch in like 5 or 7 years.

- Oh, okay.

Okay.

That was just going to be my next question is how long does it normally last.

5 to 7 years.

Okay - I find... I find if somebody has lighter this color they're probably going to be on the 3 to 5 range.

The darker more pigment is probably going to be on the 5 to 7 range.

- Okay.

So what are some of the most common reasons for someone to need this service done?

So most dominant is a mastectomy.

- Okay.

And if they've had a breast reduction, usually with the breast reduction, the sizing is off.

And so I can go back in and try to help camouflage with the sizing and add some color that can kind of help mimic that.

And then we can kind of get more circular because the shapes have been just amazing to me.

It could be that they had a breast reduction and they lost pigment coloring.

And what that will look like for visual, maybe like vitiligo on your breast where there's, like, light pink and then you have, like, a darker color.

And what I tell people with that is that your body's not holding your natural color, so it may not hold the artificial color 100%.

What I can do is make it not look as noticeable.

- Okay.

- But it may not have that 100% coverage.

- Okay.

- And they could have had any other type of breast surgery that would have caused them to lose their shape or size or color, and those would be the ones that would come to me.

- Okay.

And is there a different type of ink use than, like, traditional, like, tattooing ink?

- Yep.

So we use different inks.

And the ones that I use are REACH compliant so they're the safest on the market.

- Nice.

- And they go off of the European standards, which, I find have very, very high sanitation standards and educational (unintelligible).

- Okay, okay.

So how does this process normally work from like consultations to completion?

- Yeah.

So consultation.

Because I have people who come in out of town to see me, we can do a virtual consultation.

And during the virtual consultation.

Yep.

I'm looking to see.

Do you have a mastectomy?

Do you have, maybe.

And honestly, this was more that I'm getting now.

People who have only had a mastectomy on one breast, which is a unilateral.

And so I have to match up their original breast to make the other side look as close as possible to that.

So that actually can take a little bit longer than me just going in and creating two.

So that's what I'm looking to see.

I'm looking to make sure that you've had at least 6 to 9 months of healing after your surgery.

And I'm looking to make sure that there's no other contraindications, any medications, all that kind of stuff.

And that you've had clearance from your doctor.

So just making sure that you're a good candidate.

And then I try to answer any questions that people feel apprehensive about because this has been a very long journey for them.

And I get to be their finish line.

So they're excited but anxious.

So I try to take away as much anxiety as possible.

- Okay.

And completion.

How long does it normally take for someone to start the consultation to completion time frame.

So consultation, then they come in, we do the tattooing.

When they actually come in to do the tattooing, it probably takes about two hours for our first session.

And that's just because it takes more time to get sizing right.

- Yeah.

- And then to pick out the colors that I'm trying to match up and blend in with your skin tone.

And if it's fairly simple, like I've had somebody I— I mean, it took me like five minutes to pick out the colors, but I had another lady take me like 20 minutes.

- Okay.

- And that was because when I was matching her up, she had so many colors in her other natural breast that I to adjust for those.

But— - And you can adjust for all of those?

- Yeah, I can adjust all of those.

Like, I tell them, it's not going to be a 100% match, but it'll be as close as possible.

So then they go home and they heal and I give them their aftercare packet, has all their instructions on it.

They come back in six weeks because their body is going to push out about 20% of the pigment.

It’s going to lighten up.

And then I'll go in, reinforce that coloring so that they can last for the years.

And then after that I don't see them for years, which is the part I hate because I'm like, I'm used to seeing people like every week.

But they're really excited and then they're happy after that.

- Wow.

Wow.

Again, like, something new, like processing it all is such an incredible service that you provide.

And the idea that you can help restore that, like confidence is amazing.

So, is there any other specific medical and emotional factors that clients should aware of before kind of jumping into this?

- I don't know about emotional but, I definitely think that when you're selecting an artist, it should be somebody who's very empathetic, because there may be times where, you know, something's getting triggered as your tattooing, and they just need a second.

They just need a breath.

When you have somebody who's just focused on getting you in and out that's not really something that they're going to give you.

If you don't have somebody who's really focused on the artistry, then you have very, I'll say, generic looking outcomes.

And I'm like a perfectionist, like, even, like, I just did a lady and I got done with her and I'm taking the pictures and I’m like, oh, wait, you have to get back on because I see a little light spot.

She’s like, “What do you see?” And I know it's nothing that they would see, but, but you know, you want that perfectionist with it.

So I think you just really want to look at how they treat, how they care, and that they're really just going to be able to be patient with you.

- So let's talk about these here.

Tell us about these.

- So I am the only one in the state that is offering.

- Okay, state of Ohio.

You're the only one who's offering— - Custom prosthetics.

- Wow.

- And so what custom prosthetics are is as you can see, it's raised, it's lifted.

What I found to was, when you get that call, I just can imagine, because I've never had cancer.

But when you get that call, it kind of takes your breath away.

And when I get done tattooing them and they look in that mirror, it's like you can see them release that breath that they've been holding for so long, right?

So I was like, well, how can we help them along the way?

So when they get that call, they can come see me and I can literally make a replica of their breast and color it to help match it so they could wear this throughout their journey because they have to wait a certain time after the— - Before they can get, like, the permanent?

- Yes.

For the tattoo.

- Yeah.

- I need you completely done with every surgery.

- Okay.

- And they can have complications that arise that will prevent them from coming.

I have one lady.

Her cancer actually came back right before she was getting ready to come in for a tattooing, so.

This is something that they can just pop on and off at leisure and still wear, and it's just, you can use the same adhesive that they use, it’s called a cranial prosthesis when you lose your hair.

You can use that same adhesive because it's safe for the skin, it’s safe for cancer patients.

And then they just glue it on.

And so how this would work is essentially... Put it on.

It stays on kind of good.

But if they don't want to put the actual adhesive on, but if they want to go swimming, they're sweating, working out.

Yes.

It's really game changing.

- Oh my gosh.

On how they can go through and have the piece, the mental piece that, okay, I'm going to look normal.

I'm going to feel normal.

And I have at least a picture.

And so I always tell people too, like, if I can't get a mold or something for you, take a picture.

Have a photo shoot.

Get that coloring, the shaping, sizing.

So we can actually come in and be as close as possible to what you had before.

- Wow.

And, guys, this feels so real.

- Yeah.

- It's crazy.

Like, you have the nipple and then the... Oh my God.

- And I have one for males because I've had a male who had breast cancer and I tattooed him.

And it was so... What I love about his story is... - Yeah, share a little bit as much as you can.

- He was like, you know, actually, he’s been a very big advocate so he’ll come on and talk to anybody for me.

But he was like, you know, I just want to be able to— - We should’ve had you both on.

- I know!

He's like, “I just want to be able to go to the beach and take off my shirt and feel normal.” And he did.

I got him to the beach.

He was comfortable, he said nobody looked at him.

So his confidence, like, even just when he first came in, he really didn't talk that much.

And that's a lot of people.

But when they come in on that second round, they are so different.

- Really?

Okay.

- Yes.

- I mean, their head is held differently, their voice, their speech.

I mean, you just see that confidence.

Literally see it.

- Wow.

- Hello, this is Forum 360 where we have a global outlook from a local view.

Today our guest is Leia’ Love.

She's talking about the healing power of areola tattooing.

Wow.

It's incredible.

I'm so glad you clarified that this service can be available to anyone, anyone who is going through and need it done.

So— - And you know what?

And I did forget.

- Yeah.

- People who do, like, a trans surgery, if they have lost their nipples and areolas as well, those would be people who would also utilize the service.

- Okay.

So let's talk a little bit about financing.

Does a typical insurance provider cover these services?

- Yes.

So I try to work as best as possible to help get this financed.

So the first option would be a private pay.

The second option will be your insurance.

Now it's most insurances that the company that I use accepts.

If they don't accept it then if you qualify for a grant then we have two different companies and organizations that we use for the grant.

And one is mine.

And I have a nonprofit called Spark Beauty Fund.

And with that, because what I was finding was some people, they were in this in-between space where they couldn't get their insurance to cover it, they made too much for the grant, but they still couldn't afford it.

And I'm like, I would hate to have to turn somebody away who could necessarily do like a payment plan or something like that, and not have access to confidence just because of that.

So I created a nonprofit.

So we are up and running looking for donations so that we can help give these people enough confidence that they can go out into the world and just be normal.

Even though nobody sees it, but, you know.

- Imagine the things that people don't see and we still feel not as confident about it.

Yes.

- I always tell people I'm surprised at the amount of women who hug me with their shirt off.

Because they're so excited that just having that tattoo makes them feel covered.

Like, they even forget they don't have a shirt on.

And that is just, that's just amazing to me.

- Yeah.

Okay, so let’s switch gears a little.

- All right.

- Even though we'll jump back to it.

But, what kind of education or training do you need to get into this field?

- Yeah, so when you're getting into permanent cosmetics this will kind of fall in that realm.

You'll have to get different training.

I would say go someplace that has at least 100 hours that they provide of education to earn their training.

Because when you get ready to be licensed, it's no longer licensed by the board of cosmetology I'm licensed by Board of Health.

So I have two separate licenses.

So you're going to have all your requirements that you have to fulfill for the Department of Health.

And that's going to vary by state and actually sometimes counties.

So whatever department that you have, you want to check there first.

What are the requirements that you need in your training.

But that's the training that you would need at a minimum.

- Okay.

- But of course I go above and beyond, so.

- And I just want to make sure that people are finding someone that's qualified.

So making sure they're certified, is there a certification like an actual certificate that they could look out for?

- Yeah.

One of the things I found in the permanent cosmetic industry is that there's a lot of people who don't do quality training.

- Yeah.

- And you don't know what you don't know, right?

- I’m thinking about the microblading.

- Yeah.

Microblading was a huge learning issue that they found in the industry that there were people who were doing one day trainings, and then people were doing, like five day trainings.

And it's like, what was the difference?

But you have these barriers of cost again, because of different communities what they can afford as far as access and education.

So, I tell people it's not necessarily about the cost, it really is about the person and their skill level.

But if you're looking as like, where do I even just start first?

There's different societies in organizations that we’re a part of.

So you can go there first for the permanent cosmetics association.

See which people that they recommend because they'll give you like a good start to where you can look at.

You’ll want to look and see if people have their before and afters, they have some healed, look at their reviews.

But yeah, that's the main thing that you really just want to research that.

And that's one of the things that I want to get into this year is education, because, you're really kind of at the mercy of what that person has learned.

And if they’ve only gone to one class, they're only teaching you what that one person has taught.

And so, you know, I'm really, really big on education and learning.

Like, all the things that we're learning now and seeing years later after microblading, like, oh gosh, we shouldn't have done that.

Oh, we should use this ink.

And this is how it's healing in the skin.

So we want better results.

Better healed results.

- And time and experience will bring that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you build trust with clients who may be nervous or self-conscious about the procedure?

- Honestly, I think it's a gift I have that people are automatically comfortable.

- Okay.

- So I don't have a lot right there.

And, like, even the guy when he said— Well, he said I wasn't intimidated of him.

I'm not really intimidated because I have to get you confident, right?

That's my main focus.

So however I can make you comfortable, whether it's, you know, do you want to listen to a certain type of music?

- Oh, okay.

- One of the things that I do, too, is I have them write on a card, and I ask them to tell me, what are they feeling right at the beginning so I can see and understand what they're feeling.

And then at the end, I ask them, how do they feel now?

And you know, I see the complete difference.

But I just really go above and beyond to try to make sure that they're comfortable.

Try to take away that anxiety because, you know, it is nerve wracking.

I don't know what you're going to do.

I don't know if there's going to look worse than what I already have because some have already had some major botches.

And then they're like, I don't want you to be another one, so.

- So I don't know if this is going to hurt.

I know I got a tattoo before and it was so painful.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Now is this going to be extra sensitive?

- Yes.

- Well, let's talk about that.

Yeah.

- That is definitely the biggest question.

Will this hurt?

What I find is most of their breast reconstructions, I'll say deep flaps.

They don't feel anything.

And a deep flap is where they take, like, your tissue, your muscle, everything, and put it up here from your stomach.

So essentially, they're getting a tummy tuck.

They really don't feel anything.

And then I have implants.

Implants usually tend to feel a sensation.

I will go in.

I do like a little outline and ask them to tell me how they're feeling.

And then if they are feeling anything, I put numbing on.

So after that they don't feel a thing.

So I try to keep them as comfortable as possible.

So I'm like, don't let that be a factor.

You won't feel it.

You'll be like, oh, okay, I'm good to go.

And it's a numbing cream?

Or.

- It's a liquid.

- Okay.

-Yeah.

That just implants better, faster, quicker.

- Okay.

Okay.

- So yeah.

So how can family or partners best support someone considering this service?

- I find that when we have somebody who's close to us, we don't want to say the wrong thing.

We don't want to do the wrong thing.

And so we go silent.

Silence is so much louder than saying the wrong thing.

- Okay.

- So I say, “Don't shy away.” But there's different things.

I just post a series over Christmas, Ten Gifts That You Can Give Year Round.

So there's different things that you can do.

Just to let that person know that you're thinking of them.

Maybe they don't want to talk.

Maybe they don't want to be bothered with people.

You can send something in the mail.

Who doesn't love getting something in the mail?

That will brighten up anybody's day.

Let me send you a song I was listening to today.

I thought this may encourage you today.

- Oh.

Okay.

Yeah.

- Yeah, you know, if their palette for food has changed, I'm sending you a meal.

Maybe you don't feel like cooking today.

- Yeah.

- You know, we've got you some foods and snacks, whatever the case may be.

And we all love food, right?

Who doesn't love it?

So I just say don't go silent.

- Okay.

- Just find another way to show up.

- Okay.

What about that spouse that is with you?

Most of the time they come to the appointment with you.

How can a spouse best support during this process?

Okay, so A, I love all the spouses that come into the appointments with my client.

Because you can just see that level of care and protection and they're, you know, looking back and forth.

They’re like, “Oh yeah, that looks good.” But that does a number on them to know that they're approving of this new look that they’re having.

- Being a part of the process.

And they're excited.

- They’re part of the proccess.

Yes.

Yes.

So like okay, the person I'm intimate with is happy.

Like, they're okay.

Like, that puts my mind at ease.

But... Wait, what was the question?

- So how can the spouse— - Okay.

So that's how they can support.

- Okay.

- Really, I find just their presence is, like, really big.

But if you are a husband and you're trying to, like, reconnect with your wife, a date night, like a really thoughtful date night, right?

- Oh my God.

I love it.

- Or just something like, maybe I haven't showed you in a while that I've been thinking of you, holding their hand, doing a nice cuddle movie night.

I mean, there's so many ways to just kind of like, I'm reconnecting with you or just being us, and it's just that.

- I love it.

So, are there any common misconconceptions about this service?

- I don't know if there's any misconceptions, but I feel the hardest battle I have is that people just don't know about it.

They don't know it exists and they don't know that I'm here for them.

So awareness is big.

So 1 in 8 people, 1 in 8 women are going to experience breast cancer.

That is going to mean it's going to be you, your friend, your sister, your cousin.

Somebody is going to be touched by it in your life.

So if I can get exposed to anyone that can help somebody else, because like I say, it may not be for you, but it could be for somebody that you know.

So awareness is the biggest battle that I have right now before we can even get to any misconceptions, because they don’t even know it’s there.

- I felt like during the intro, especially honestly, during this whole entire interview, I felt like I was just learning so much about a field I knew nothing about.

- Yeah.

- Nothing.

- Yeah.

It's not.

- And I could see how impactful it could be to so many.

My cousin actually, all the month of January, we've been going through a cancer scare and we still don't have the answer.

Well, she has her appointments set for her feedback.

And I'm just thinking about like, oh my God, like, she might need this in... And even to know that you can come to you before like once you get your results back.

Wow.

- Yeah.

- But, you know, that call and then having to go back in for a biopsy and then I mean, those are just really scary times of that unknown.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I mean it's just so stressful.

So if you can kind of help alleviate some of those things that people are thinking about along the way.

- So how can someone reach out to you for more information?

- Yeah.

So they can call me at (330) 338-1373.

They can go online to my website, leialove.com.

I'm on all social media, Leia’ Love Artistrys on Instagram.

There's some pictures and things like that on there.

- Like before and afters?

- Before and afters.

- Okay.

Amazing.

What I will say though, is if you have an artist that you want to reach out to, that you look online and they don't have a lot of before and afters, don't necessarily count them out because of that.

Because I get flagged for nudity a lot.

So a lot of us don't have a lot of before and afters on Instagram and Facebook, but we may have them still to send to you or another page that we may send them to that won't get flagged.

So just a part of your research, just do a little extra with that.

- Okay.

Well thank you.

So thank you for joining us on Forum 360 as we explore the healing power of areola tattooing with Leia’ Love.

If today's conversation sparked questions or helped you with any body healing or body restores, things that you want to.

explore more on, please reach out to Leia’ and find out more information.

I am your host, Ashira Nelson.

Thank you for watching and we'll see you next time on Forum 360.

Form 360 is brought to you by John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, the Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications, and Forum 360 supporters.