Welcome to Forum 360.

Thank you for joining us on our global outlook with a local view.

This is Leslie Ungar, your host today.

Every few years on Forum 360, we turn our attention to Israel.

This country slightly smaller than New Jersey.

The only democracy in the Middle East, a country with no oil, but a country that has given us Waze, voice mail, instant messaging, the defibrillator and the phone chip You could to divide life in Israel to before and after October 7th, 2023.

Just as in many ways you can divide our life in the United States too, before and after 911.

Before October 7th, This country, established in 1948, was called the Silicone Valley of the Mediterranean, and third, only to the United States and Canada in terms of number of companies listed on the Nasdaq.

After October 7th, this country has been fighting for its life literally and in the world of public opinion.

Two Akronites, young leaders in our community recently returned from a mission trip to Israel.

Joining us today to hear about their trip and their perspectives are Amy Joy Stewart and Vicki Kolamensky.

Welcome.

- Thank you.

- Thank you so much for going, for coming back and for coming here.

I've gone to Israel since the late 80s.

Every time I go, people ask me why.

Why would I go to this country that seems to always be at war?

One time I went during the intifada and literally was at war.

So let me start there.

Why did you go at this time?

Let me start with you, Amy.

- Sure.

The opportunity was great.

Jewish Akron.

Subsidized our trip.

And so my thought, not that this was the only reason, but my thought was that this is a great opportunity to go at a reduced cost to go with a group that I did not know at first, but that I, that I knew of and that I knew were, basically the future of Judaism here in Akron.

And to give back to that greater Jewish community, I am actually a convert recent.

Within the past three years, and I've really been embraced by this local community, and I just felt the need to give back to the to the global community.

- Let me ask you, for anyone listening or watching that doesn't know what that means.

So you say you are a recent convert.

Can you tell us from your perspective what does that mean?

- Sure.

I actually had to meet with a rabbi.

- So you were born?

- I was born Christian.

- Okay.

- I feel like a lot of people ask, did you turn away from Christianity or how'd that happen?

I do not feel that way.

I feel like I turned towards Judaism, and just embraced this thing that had been calling me since I was a teenager, really.

And so I met with the rabbi, I learned, I studied, took a class, wrote several papers, which is why my, conversion took as long as it did.

It took about two years, because I was stalled on the papers.

And once that was done, I met with the rabbi and a group of my peers, basically, that were Jewish.

They asked me a lot of questions about why and what I wanted, what I saw in my future.

And that was that.

That was was basically the process.

- Okay.

Thank you.

Let me ask you, why did you go and why did you go at this time?

- So I decided to go because truthfully, as you said at the very beginning, you know, there's really an Israel that exists before October 7th and after October 7th.

And for me personally, October 7th was so devastating, so emotional.

And my care for the, you know, the Israeli people, the Jewish people felt so profound.

And I really wanted to go immediately, really, after October 7th, on October 8th, I would have gone on a plane and gone to visit and to, you know, do whatever I could to bear witness.

And to, you know, it sounds like saccharin, but like, provide any comfort or, help that I could, just felt so important.

And we also discovered when we were there, as you said, you know, some people ask, like, why do you go?

It seems to be perpetually at war.

Israel is obviously at war right now, but we were met with such gratitude.

People were so thankful to see us come from America to, you know, to be of help, to, just, you know, also help the local economy.

And so it just felt important on so many levels to show the support for, for the country.

- You know, recently I, I would purposely went to Munich to go to Dachau, Concentration Camp.

And when I came back and I would mention that I was stunned by how many people would say why?

Why would you want to go?

And I was like, why wouldn't you want to go?

But, you know, even why would you go to Israel?

Right?

So how did your families feel about saying ‘bye’, you know, and you going?

It's one thing for you to make that decision.

How did your families feel?

- My husband was very supportive My husband's always very supportive of me.

He actually had to take a week off of work because he works nights and we have a ten year old, so he had to, you know, stay with her overnight and get her to school.

So he was very supportive.

My father, who, I don't know that he was real happy with my conversion at first.

He's been good, Good lately.

Was jealous of me for going to Israel like, he really was excited for me.

So.

And I think the rest of my family was excited as well.

- And your families?

- So my family, is really, my well first, my husband and he actually I'm so fortunate he was able to come as well.

And he was able to come because, my in-laws were able to take our kids, and I think they were really supportive.

I mean, they could also, you know, sat around the dinner table with us for the past 18 months and hear our, you know, so much of our conversation is about Israel and about, you know, the outpouring of anti-Semitism afterwards and just how much we care and invested.

So I think they were very supportive.

- So let's flip that quickly.

Whenever I've gone, the night before, I have high anxiety saying (unintelligable).

I'm never going to see you again.

And then I get there and I feel safer than I feel in the States.

You know, walking around somewhere.

So.

So tell us first, was this your first trip and how safe did you feel while you were there?

- It was my first trip.

And like you, I had a lot of anxiety, especially just because there there was a current war.

The cease fire at that time was expired, and they were sort of in the middle of discussions as well.

So there was some anxiety there.

But once I got there, I mean, really honestly, I, I didn't feel fear at all.

As a matter of fact, we went down to a kibbutz.

That was what was it like 700 yards away from Gaza?

You stood literally 700 yards away from Gaza, looking out.

And I still didn't feel unsafe.

So it was it was fine.

It was absolutely fine.

- Right.

And you feel very safe when you were there.

And and any difference between how you felt about thinking about going and when you were actually there.

I mean, I was anxious a little bit.

I think it's, you know, common relatively, but so no, I, it was felt we felt really safe there.

There also are a lot of precautions.

I think it's the government.

The Israeli government, requires that you have like an armed guard with you depending on where you're going on your itinerary.

So we did have someone with us, on different parts of the trip.

And, yeah no, in general, we were very lucky to be there, actually, sort of like a lull in the hostilities.

And it felt.

Yeah, very safe, very normal.

The markets were, you know, bustling and, people were on the beach in Tel Aviv.

- It is a great, great beaches in Tel Aviv, right?

- Yeah, yeah.

And you can find someone playing volleyball at any time.

- At any time.

Right.

- Yeah that’s what it felt like - Even at night we were walking at night like 11 at night and people are playing volleyball.

- Yeah.

- Well, the last time I was there, the Cavs were in the playoffs and I got up and walked to the only sports bar in Jerusalem that had the playoffs at three in the morning.

- Oh wow And they were playing at three in the morning.

volleyball on the beach.

- Now you land in Tel Aviv, Tel Aviv, the only airport in the entire country.

So people understand how small this country is.

There is one airport you land in Tel Aviv.

Your mission had three focus areas.

Let's look at the first one.

Focus on bearing witness to what happened on October 7th.

So what did you see or hear that was different, either from what you heard in the states or what other people going at other times that are not bearing witness that, you know, from what they would hear or see?

- I mean, we heard a lot the first, the first three days really were about, bearing witness and even the whole trip was about it.

But really, we met with people from, (unintelligable) that were affected by it.

We met with a survivor from the Nova festival.

Hearing their stories.

I mean, I had heard them on the news, but hearing them face to face and being in the place where the stuff happened, was just very powerful.

I don't know that it was different than what I was expecting.

Because, again, I'd heard the stories, but but just to hear it firsthand and to want to shout it from the rooftops that this happened like this, this horrible, horrible, horrible thing happened.

And I will say, like the Nova music Festival for me was one of the most powerful places that I've ever been in my life.

- And if you would just follow that up to for listeners or viewers, because it was the most powerful because.

- Because it was a place where so many young people, 22, 23 year olds, were going to just have a good time, like I have.

I have, nieces that are in that age and, you know, they go down the country fest down in Canal Fulton every year.

And that was exactly what it was like.

Somebody just came into country fest and started murdering people and doing horrible, horrible things to people.

And just to, to think of that and to know that that happened was just eye opening and life changing.

And to hear the survivor talk about how it changed his life and to hear his actually beautiful perspective on how thankful he is for his life.

I mean, he told us to, you know, cherish every moment that we have and just spread loving kindness through the world.

And that's really, you know, that's it.

- That leads to your second focus was the impact on Israeli society and on Israelis.

So you you met with Israelis of different ages, different experiences, different closeness to October 7th.

- Yeah.

- And others.

What did you learn?

- So, I would say, so the very first day that we were there, we went to Kibbutz Corazza, which as Amy was saying is very, right on the border, essentially.

And for me personally, whenever I read about the kibbutz, seem like just in terms of their, like, their ethos, this sort of they're very liberal places, people who live like communally and, you know, have a big emphasis on agriculture.

And they really know their neighbors.

They grew up together.

It's like this very sort of and it is really from this, like idealistic socialist place where it originates.

And so I always was just very drawn to, like, I think I would live on a kibbutz, like given the option.

And so to go there, we were taken around by a daughter of the kibbutz and, you know, so she grew up there and she knew everyone, you know, the hostages that were still that had been released.

The hostages that are still there.

We saw their homes and I mean, not only at these places, you know, these sort of communal.

They're like the peaceniks.

Right?

That's one of the big tragedies of October 7th, is that the people that were right on the border were the people that were striving for peace so fervently, and then were murdered so sadistically.

And so, you know, to hear these people say, you know, now we we don't really believe in peace with the Gazans like we if it were up to me, I would like to see a wall, you know, built in between.

And it's very sobering to hear it from the people themselves who really tried and who knew so many people personally in Gaza.

And to hear it from them themselves.

I think that's really sad and something that must be like reckoned with as we think about the future.

- Joining us today are Amy Joy Stewart and Vicki Kolamensky to talk about their recent trip to Israel and their perspectives.

There are traditional sites in Israel that, like everyone that goes goes to see Masada, you know, the Western Wall.

So what of the traditional thing did you get to do?

- We went to the Western Wall.

And we got, also we went on a tour of the tunnels underneath the Kotel, which was really fun.

And, we went to Har Herzl to, we saw the cemetery there and other traditional things.

We did go on like a, almost like a sightseeing tour of the geopolitical border, which was.

- That's not a sightseeing tour.

- That's not a sightseeing tour.

I know it's not.

You just get to see all this stuff.

But it was a very interesting, historic.

- We went to the church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, which was amazing, and something I, you know, place I really wanted to go to, we went to the ANU museum in Tel Aviv.

- That was actually a really great museum.

Just it was all about like Judaism.

It was the history of us, which was really interesting.

- Yeah.

It was an awesome museum.

- Yeah.

We did go to, the Israel Museum as well.

- And we went to I just had it on the tip of my tongue.

I'm so sorry.

Oh, we went to, what was the neighborhood that we went to that, with the windmill?

- Oh, the Montefiore.

Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, it was like the first Jewish neighborhood built outside of, you know, the old city.

- So you got a lot in.

- We did.

- We did there was a lot.

Now, what would you say to people especially?

It seems like young people in this country, you know, that hold signs that say things like free Hamas and you know, what would you say to them after your experience on the ground there?

Because, you know, sometimes I kid, but I'm not really kidding that, you know, if you if you asked a protester, show me where Israel is on a map.

But I don't know that they could, that's just I don't know how much, you know, understanding they have of the the geopolitics or the history or, you know, but what would you tell someone that was, you know, if you're pro something else, it makes you kind of anti Israel.

What would you say to someone.

- The conversations that I have with my husband, whenever we see Free Palestine or free Hamas, the first question that always pops into our mouth is from what you know, and I think that that's the question that I would ask.

Freedom from what?

Like what?

What are we seeing that that they need to be freed from?

And I do understand, especially Palestinians who live in Gaza, they are under this regime and probably do need to be free from that.

But but I'm not so, so convinced, you know, as they are, that that Israel needs to be the one that they're free from.

- Now your third focus was to - - Wait, can I answer that?

- Yes, yes.

Yes, - she's got a lot of ideas.

- Well, I mean, that's a huge question.

- Yes, yes it is.

- And I mean, I could go on and on, but I won't.

And instead what I'll say is that what was - I'm still dealing with and I'm still processing and will process for the rest of my life, is the world's response to October 7th and it really was.

I felt so completely blindsided and so completely devastated by it.

And to see people that I know, people that I, you know, I've been a progressive.

I've been someone who has championed causes on the left.

And to see, you know, so many of these people who believe in so many, you know, humanistic values to then so quickly, like it was incredible to, you know, call Israel every terrible name in the book.

But not just that, but to dehumanize Israelis.

And I would just I'm happy to have an intellectual conversation with anybody about all of this.

But the people who live in Israel are people.

They have dreams.

They have brothers and sisters.

They have sons.

They're people, you know, who are murdered in the most sadistic ways.

And they deserve sympathy as human beings.

And we really need to keep that in mind.

I don't know how that got lost so quickly.

It scares me very much.

And so, I mean, I would just want to talk about, like, the humanity because I feel like that's been so lost.

- And it.

Yes, it has, but a partial way that you kind of demonstrated humanity.

Your third focus was volunteering.

And that's a way of, you know, showing humanity.

So what what was volunteering like in this trip?

- We we helped to, we have to paint, children's almost a children's center, like a kindergarten room.

at a kibbutz that had been housing IDF soldiers, and the rooms had gotten a little, you know, they weren't looking so great.

So we helped to paint.

We went and picked grapefruit under the hot Israeli sun.

one morning.

- We sure did.

- You got to feel like you worked on a kibbutz.

- Yes.

- Yeah, pretty much yes.

- And the man who?

The farmer who, owned the grapefruit farm.

He was a soldier himself.

So he had been away for many, many months, you know, doing his reserve duty.

And so needed help.

And a lot of the Thai agricultural workers, you know, left after October, like the people that would be there normally to help.

So things like that, you know.

Which just kind of goes to show how diverse Israel is.

- It really is.

- It’s not just Israelis, right?

It's not just Jews.

It's very diverse.

- It is very diverse.

And one of the one of the restaurants that we ate at was actually owned by a woman whose family had, migrated from Egypt in the 80s.

- Ethiopia.

- Ethiopia, thank you so much.

There was another woman that we met that, her family had come from Egypt.

But we did get to hear her story.

Her family's story, and, and many of the people that we met were not Ashkenazi.

- Oh my gosh.

not at all.

- Not at all.

It was very diverse.

- Yes.

Now you, visited the kibbutz that was invaded by Hamas on October 7th.

So can you just tell us briefly what is it like almost 18 months later?

What is it like at a kibbutz that was invaded on October 7th?

It's, it's a ghost town.

So it's people- So very few people.

I think it maybe had a thousand residents, you know, on October 7th, and now you know, a scattering.

of you know maybe- I can't say a number, actually, but very few.

It's mostly people that are coming.

It's like they're bullet holes everywhere.

There are roofs that are caved in.

You know, doors have, you know, writing in Hebrew for to connote like part of the IDF missions in the days after October 7th.

It's not - they're completely, in havoc still.

- Yeah.

It was very, very much a ghost town.

I'm so sorry.

And very much, empty.

I know the one kibbutz we didn't actually visit that the location of the kibbutz.

But we did - - No, (unintelligable) - the People of the other kibbutz.

- Oh - Yeah, we did visit one, community, kibbutz community, where they had actually left their homes and moved into a building in Tel Aviv, or a group of buildings so that they could stay together.

And still most of them have not returned to their homes.

So it was definitely empty.

- If there was one thing that you would want viewers and listeners that have never been to Israel and may know very little except for what they see on the news, kind of like as we said, an outsized amount of attention for such a small country.

What would you like them to know about Israel?

If there was one thing.

- It's just a beautiful country.

It really is.

It's just a gorgeous country with with a diverse cast of characters.

You think that there's only two sides to a story, but there's there's not.

It's - you get the full gamut there.

- Right You can get a bikini and you can get a very orthodox of any religion, right?

- Yeah.

- Walking in the same three feet down the street.

- Yeah.

And is there one thing that you would want, people that didn't know that much about Israel to know from your trip?

- I guess it's difficult.

I just think it's just fantastically diverse.

I think they'd feel so much more comfortable there than they might anticipate.

Because, you know, it is very Western.

It has a lot of, you know, restaurants and people, you know, all different, you know, skin hues and it's.

Yeah, it's just a really lively, you know, place that people live life to the fullest.

- In the a couple minutes that we have remaining, I'm going to ask you for a 2 or 3 word answers.

Okay?

- Okay.

What surprised you most on this trip?

Whether you'd been there before or not?

What surprised you most?

- just how kind everybody really was and how appreciative people were.

- What surprised you most?

- How stuck the people are still, on October 7th.

- What do you think would surprise someone else that was going on their first trip?

- Say it again please?

- What would surprise someone that was going to Israel for the first time?

that surprised you?

But what would what do you think would surprise someone that was going to Israel for the first time?

I think that, to Amy's point, before, I mean, in America, I know it's 2 to 3 words, it's not going to happen that were so, you know, Ashkenazi Jews, the biggest cultural touch point for people.

And it's just so completely like they're Jews from all over the Middle East, Jews from, you know, Russia, Dagestan everywhere, you know, North Africa.

And it's the diversity of people's experiences is just profound.

- And one way the diversity come out is in the food that, you know, and here we might just think it's all hummus, right?

But, favorite food?

- Well, was probably the, the falafel place.

- It was really good.

- It was really good.

- Okay.

And favorite food?

- Two things.

One is we went to an amazing vegetarian restaurant, Jerusalem, called Pergamon that was like all the quality was incredible.

And iced aroma.

I love iced aroma.

It’s a really amazing, coffee treat.

- Okay.

Now, in 1 or 2 words, what is one thing that you think that people get wrong about Israel?

And I know it’s not fair.

- It's a hard one.

- I know it is.

- It's impossible.

Leslie, one or two words - I know it's so hard.

- I, I totally get.

So give me your favorite memory of this trip.

Is there one favorite memory?

- If we're talking about the things- With a hostage family?

- Yeah, if we're talking about the things that we bore witness to, it was definitely, meeting the survivor from the Nova Music festival.

But if it's if it's the fun, the camaraderie.

Was Tel Aviv and Purim.

We were there during Purim, which was super fun.

- One memory.

- One memory from this trip.

I'm the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors.

And so for me, it felt especially after October 7th, really just just being in Israel, this place where Jews could finally, you know, be free, have self-determination, felt really profound just being in that place.

- Unknown and uncertain.

Amy Joy Stewart and Vicki Kolamensky joined us today to help us understand what life is like when you live with the unknown and the uncertain every day.

In some ways, the Middle East is very complicated, and in other ways it's not.

The citizens of a democracy have the right to expect to wake up in the safety of their own home each day, attend a music concert, and go about their life without the fear of torture or death or capture.

It's not all that complicated.

Thank you to two Akronites for going to Israel and for joining us today.

I'm Leslie Ungar, Forum 360.

Thank you for joining us for a global outlook with a local view Forum 360 is brought to you by John S and James L Knight Foundation, the Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Sha Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications, and Forum 360 supporters.