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>> Well, it's getting dark earlier these days, but maybe this panel will shed some light on local matters.

Thanks for joining us for Donnybrook.

Let's meet the panelists and then dive into this week's program.

Starting with Wendy Wiese, the media veteran herself from the Post Dispatch, Mr.

Bill McClellan, one of our founders.

Also from the Post and STLtoday.com, Joe Holleman, and Alvin Reid from the St.

Louis American.

Alvin, we're going to start with you because uh government leaders did vote this week to open up government and end the shutdown.

And among those voting with the Republicans, eight Democrats, including Dick Durban, senator from Illinois.

And a lot of people are angry at Durban and his seven other uh senators who voted for it.

The Democrats anyway, people like uh Senators Sanders and uh Warren and Chris Murphy.

They say, you know, we we had pretty good bargaining position after our successful elections in early November and we had a lot of people at our rallies.

Why are you caving in?

And you also for those that said they shouldn't have done it in the first place, they had already won some courtroom battles as far as uh the backing financially of SNAP.

I'm very disappointed.

As I rate as anybody want to be, I'm put me at the top of that list.

Listen, Dick Durbin could be standing out there like Neville Chamberlain with that paper blowing in the air.

I mean, it's just capitulation.

And to think that you actually are going to get something out of the Republican Senate, a vote on, you know, uh subsidizing of Obamacare, it's never going to happen.

You got play.

>> They did promise a roll call roll.

Not going to happen.

Guarantee it will not happen.

>> You don't think there'll even be a vote?

>> Nope.

There will not be a vote.

They will come up with some kind of excuse or some kind of something.

They got played.

They got played.

It's a disaster.

All I can say is at least those that wanted to fight are saying, "Let's fight."

>> Why would I'm sorry, Bill.

Go ahead.

I I was going to say I I I applaud Senator Durban for doing this.

I'm glad the government is open again.

I thought it was a mistake to shut it down.

I would rather have the Republicans raise premiums on health care and then the Democrats can say this is what you get with Republicans.

And so I thought it was a mistake in the first place.

I think it's good to stop it before we get to Thanksgiving when everybody is trying to travel and it's already the worst day of the year in the airports.

If the airport and the the traffic controllers weren't getting paid and things would be a mess, I'm just glad that >> Bill wants his family from Austin in St.

Louis for Thanksgiving.

I get it.

>> They they had they had all they had to do all the Democrats had to do was sign a seven the seven week extension.

>> No.

>> Yeah.

>> No.

No.

It's time to say no.

This won't stop until you stand up to that guy.

>> Are you in election?

>> They just won.

>> Well, but now states that already were blue.

Okay.

>> And the mayor of New York.

>> Virginia was not a blue state.

Virginia had a Republican governor.

>> Virginia's been a blue state when it came to voting for >> Virginia has a Republican governor and a Democrat won.

So, >> but wasn't there a lot of pain and suffering with people who weren't getting their SNAP benefits?

>> How many pain and suffering?

What is going on in the United States of America?

I'm sorry the people weren't getting their SNAP benefits, but there comes a time where you have to stand up and you have to be unified and you have to fight.

They back down.

Oh, and by the way, all eight aren't running for reelection next year.

Oh, funny how that worked out.

>> Well, I think maybe it worked out because they realized that the people who needed because all we heard about was how awful >> the Republicans were keeping these SNAP benefits away.

>> Well, there was one way to put them back and that was for Democratic.

Well, then what you're saying, Alvin, is is you should have held out.

No, we have a differing opinion.

I'm not wrong.

>> No, I you know what I'm Joe, calm down.

I didn't mean to say that you were wrong.

I'm just saying that.

Okay.

I apologize.

I'm trying to apologize.

I'm not saying you're wrong.

I'm saying that we disagree.

Okay.

But I vehemently think that this was a mistake.

>> Yeah.

I mean, if Alvin's right and they don't have a vote, then according to I think the Chicago Tribune, health insurance premiums in Illinois are going to go up an average 78% without those.

And as Bill said, and as Bill said, Democrats could have hung that around Republicans necks for the midterms.

>> But then then so use people as a wedge to get real.

>> What did you what were the Democrats doing on Snap, Charlie?

They were using people in the same way.

>> I I brought that up.

So we have nobody being right or nobody being wrong.

The problem was was that a nuance situation.

had eight Democrats who decided that it was time to get the government back into the business of government and they did.

Joe, I want >> I do want my family flying in Thanksgiving.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And mine from out of town, wherever they might be.

>> Hey, Joe Holleman, uh you write politics, uh write on politics in the Post Dispatch.

And uh Josh Hawleyy is a senator from the state of Missouri.

Speaking of the bill uh that opened up the government, 394 pages long, but there was a small section that was most interesting and that is it said that the eight Republican US senators whose phone records were accessed by former special counsel Jack Smith when he was investigating possible improprieties with the 2020 election that if those phone records were assessed without notification, those senators would be eligible.

for $500,000 or actual damages, whichever is higher.

And if they were asked to sign a non-disclosure, they'd get another $500,000.

And by the way, both of those things are legal.

>> So they they would get about a million dollar.

So Josh Hawley would get a million dollar.

And yes, if that were going on, they contacted I contacted Hawley's office and asked them what about it.

Hawley says the provision was a bad idea.

So >> So why did he vote for it?

>> Those aren't senators.

Well, and he was just going along with the Democrats who joined him.

>> Durban twisted his arm.

>> Durban flipp the hammer on him and Fedman went over and said, "Josh, you need to vote for."

But um so they've they four of the eight Hawley and three others have said bad idea.

So now the mystery is how did it get in there?

Now, the idea that nobody read that, that's not surprising at all that legislators didn't read a 394 page bill.

So, the I'm more interested in is how it got in there in the first place.

Mike Johnson, the House Speaker, not happy about it because now he got it over and he thought alls I got to do is do this vote.

Now, he's got to strip that provision out because the House members were like, "Nobody told us this."

And I think that's the $64 question here is who actually put that in there because nobody in the house said they knew about the speaker of the house didn't know about it.

And the eight senators, four of them have backed away.

Said >> but the blowback was so severe and so immediate.

You don't think it was sort of like, oh, uh, yeah, I don't remember that.

I don't recall.

>> I think I think one possibility.

I also think another possibility is they put it in there just to yank some chains.

We're all talking about it now and it will delay getting back the government for about a week because now the house has to take that provision out.

So >> I think I don't know who it was.

I think Holly or at least some members of his staff should read the bill as important as it is since it was discussed so much and since they uh since they also got paid apparently during the shutdown I mean famously said that we had to pass >> and Republicans criticized her for that for not reading.

So what's fair for the Democrats should be fair for the Republicans.

But for to me, here's a guy who's so proud of RA radiation exposure compensation where if you're a kid with leukemia and you pass away from that terrible disease caused by the government and it's nuclear contamination, you get up to $50,000.

Okay, that's that's the limit.

Hasn't increased since 1990.

>> Hawley's really proud of that.

But if his phones are accessed by legal by the legal counsel, he gets a half a million dollars >> or a million.

>> I think I would scan whatever bill, no matter how many pages, just to make sure it didn't have my name in it.

Now, that would say like, dude, your your name is in it.

>> Well, it it it doesn't name him because then that would be special.

What it names is any senator.

Okay.

All right.

>> So, I mean, you know, I I mean, >> we don't have any evidence that that's what happened, but you go ahead with that.

that I I just don't think that any of those eight said, "Let's put this in there because no one's going to find out."

No, I I'm I'm curious and I don't have an answer to it as to who actually put it in there.

But I can guarantee you it wasn't a Democratic senator who discovered it or congressman.

It was one of their aids or assistants who found it.

>> How did they How did they find it?

Did they actually read the bill after they voted on it?

>> The legislators probably not.

When do they do that?

>> No.

No.

When did the aid find it?

That's >> when the reporters started calling them up and saying, "Hey, you're in this.

Do you plan on doing that?"

>> It seems to me if reporters have the time to read the bill, then our lawmakers have the time to read the bill.

>> I mean, I don't if politicians were just as good as reporters, we wouldn't have problems.

>> Bill, I want to ask you about what's going on in St.

Charles.

Um, Joe Brazzle is a member of the St.

Charles County Council and he made some comments about an employee of St.

Charles County in a recent open session and the comments were regarding uh some I guess behavior that was inappropriate or something or that he's alleged misdoing or something like that.

I don't know if the employee was named, but nonetheless, when it comes to discussing the uh behavior or alleged wrongdoing of employees of the county, that usually goes into executive session along with matters involving litigation, real estate, and I don't know what else.

Well, the St.

Louis County off or St.

Charles County officials decided to redact that portion of the open session and it's not available now online and some advocates of the sunshine laws and Joe Brazzle himself are very upset.

Where do you stand?

>> Well, I think that it's a terrible mistake for the county council to be editing something that was done in in the public.

I mean, like we were talking before and Alvin mentioned that, well, if he if you were there, you saw it and then if you watch the uh version that they release, it's not there.

That's a that's troubling.

I mean, I you know, their their motives were probably good.

You know, maybe this should have been an executive session, but it wasn't.

Uh, you know, I also should say I enjoyed seeing your old colleague Kevin Khen speaking on on behalf, the spokesperson.

Well, Kevin is the spokesperson, but that's a whole another story.

>> Yes.

Yeah.

But but I Okay.

I I I thought it was a mistake to edit the film.

>> I would, like I say, I agree in that it's just that it it did happen and there were witnesses to it happening.

So, you know, I mean, not that people sit there and take notes, you know, because reporters used to always be there and they would have notes on and so it would have got out anyway.

So, I get this feeling that, oh, the greater common man won't know that this happened if we dedact it.

But that's the exact reason that you should have put it in there because it's a public record.

>> I have I have a little bit of problem with the the alderman councilman being so upset.

I think he's kind of the one that caused the problem.

What you do is you say, "I'd like to go into executive session."

Yes.

>> To discuss a personnel issue, >> but he started talking about it.

>> And so, he's the one who kind of opens the door to it.

And I will defend St.

Charles only to the extent that I believe their heart was probably in the right place.

>> That's where I am.

>> But they go there is you can't do it.

Also, the other thing it does along with the ones you say, how does that look when, as Alvin said and Bill said, a reporter's there and people were there and they heard him say that it also uh erodess the trust.

>> If you're going to start editing tapes, >> right?

Well, what else are you editing out of this tape?

You have to know that what I'm seeing is the raw quite often boring two-hour meeting of the planning and so whatever it is you have to have faith that this is the beginning to the end of the meeting with nothing cut out and you have to have that >> you know but you know sometimes in reporting too we edit things we use anonymous sources don't use a person's real name or when it comes to victims of certain crimes their names are not included and in this case I think there's concern about the privacy of an employee who is accused of wrongdoing and if it turns out he didn't commit any wrongdoing or she didn't then that person may have a case against St.

Charles County.

>> I think they would have a problem with the councilman who brought it up in the first place.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

If if it's supposed to be in executive session, go into executive session, but don't talk about stuff and then say, "Well, we don't want the public to see what we were talking about."

And that's >> but there is no law that technically says you cannot you know the thing you you you fear being sued.

Okay.

But there I don't think there's a law that says that you know how people say well it's a personnel matter.

We're not going to talk about it.

I think if somebody got I I thought that was interesting because the attorney for St.

Charles County didn't say it shouldn't be in the open session.

He says it can't be in the open session.

Okay.

>> So maybe it means legally he's not allowed to include it.

>> But I I don't know.

But You're also supposed to not alter public records either.

>> That's that's what I'm saying.

>> And that recording is a public record, >> unlike a newspaper story, which is an a bridge version.

It's not an official public record.

It's our newspapers version of what happened at that meeting.

But I I I do think being fair, any of us if if we were sitting on a government, you know, a any kind of government panel today, they have to be out of their minds in terms of, oh my gosh, you know, one wrong move and we're going to blow up this particular situation.

So I I do give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think their heart was in the right place.

I >> Who's that?

The the the county.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think there was any like malice no meant here.

They just shouldn't have done it, >> but I can understand why they would.

>> Well, Wendy, let me ask you about uh going into St.

Louis City, maybe for the first time in the show this week.

uh the Armory as well as some hotels and maybe some other locations like the AT&T Tower are now being considered creatively I think by city hall as places uh to house the homeless or people who might be in homes that aren't sheltered against the cold winter elements this year.

Here we are uh in November and all although it's warm right now eventually we think it's going to get cold in St.

Louis, a lot of people don't have uh proper protection from the elements.

So, Mayor Spencer and her people are thinking about the armory, which does have a lot of room.

I think it'd be okay as long as they put up partitions.

>> I think as long as they put up partitions, as long as obviously they make it familyfriendly, but but the the data center idea that I was in favor of went down in flames.

um as Dan Martin explained to me personally uh once recently, but I I think that this when I when I think of the the Superdome, I mean that was not exactly the same kind of situation.

And I think we have an opportunity to plan for a you know that many people uh coming in to to the structure.

The AT&T building I believe was not even on the table.

the owner didn't answer any phone calls.

He that seemed to be a non-starter, but I would be okay with the armory because I think they've had enough done to it.

Uh not like it was back in the 70s the last time I was inside of it, but uh it would be comfortable for people.

They they can make it manageable with this kind of >> you know there was the hotel hotel too and and the owner said that the city seemed to be binging at his price which I think was $600,000 for 300 people >> per >> was it a week or month?

>> I think it was per month.

And that's like $2,000 a month.

That doesn't seem so outrageous for a hotel, you know, an emergency.

>> This is This is a bad idea.

You all this?

No.

If I first of all, let's say I did want to buy the armory.

I'm think, you know, I'm trying to mull over what I'm going to do with the army.

Maybe I'll buy it.

I I'm sorry.

People being sheltered there for the winter.

No, that No, no.

I would call and say like, "No, no, no.

I'm not saying they're going to destroy the place, but it could happen.

You plan for everything going wrong.

plan for lawsuits, plan for just it being a disaster.

This is a bad idea.

There's >> But if they zero if they zero in on a location at this point, they can do that.

They can plan >> it.

It Well, it this is going it would be >> As always, I agree with Alvin.

Uh no, I on this one here, I'm okay with it.

I sure hope the city is realizing what a string they're pulling here, though, and how badly it can unravel.

How many people are going to be in there?

1,000, 2,000?

Who's going in there?

What's going to be the cost of police, the medical?

I mean, as long as they're not just saying, "We're going to swing open the doors to this armory and voila, problem solved."

>> As long as they have a full and complete plan of how to handle what, 2,000, 3,000.

>> I don't think it'll be that many.

I I think most people, Joe, are going to find a basement of a relative uh for the coldest nights of the year.

And I think that when it comes to people who have like a home that has a tarp on the roof and the tarp isn't holding, they're going to need >> I I think that a lot of people are staying with relatives and and friends.

And I think that these we ought to pay the relatives and friends who are taking people in.

There ought to be some kind of fund for that.

And and I know that, you know, all the potential for scamming is is huge, but you know, it's it's like uh foster care almost.

I mean, we we we need people to step up and say, "Hey, I'll take my two cousins."

>> But fosters care is when it's not your family.

>> This is family.

>> True, true, true.

But, but, but, but we we we do pay uh for if a grandmother takes in kids.

I mean, we've decided that that makes sense to pay the grand.

>> Okay.

And when the family of four somehow has 14 and they show up one night, what are you going to do?

Turn them away?

I mean, this is just it just I What's it going to let him freeze?

>> Wendy went to Fontban.

Fontban has empty dorms right now because that university closed this summer.

How many people can be accommodating Fontbon University?

>> I would think the Sisters of St.

Joseph of Carondolet, if the deed has not transferred at this point, they would they would get behind that with all of their might.

>> I think the sisters would say, "I can't help you.

I'm I'm I'm sorry.

I can't I this is just I I am not denigrating the people who find themselves in this situation, but I'm just telling you this is inviting disaster.

>> I think it's one of those plans that looks oh so good on paper and makes everybody feel good that we've got a solution."

In reality though, I just see all the problems plus some that Alvin and I probably haven't even pointed.

>> That's what I'm saying.

Right.

Right.

And I'm just Mr.

Starve them and freeze them.

I mean, I don't want to sound heartless right now.

But this is >> But we're going to need a port in the storm.

>> You got to do something.

>> Got to do something.

>> And and I'm and I'm fine with that.

I just don't think it'd be like, whoa, what a great job we've done and that's it.

It's always the followup as to how you execute that.

The details.

>> It absolutely is.

And my problem with government overall these days is we think it ends with having a great plan.

And it's like, okay, we're done.

And no, I I think this could be this is going to take a lot of work and a lot of supervision.

Well, Wendy, what do you think about um Molly Mcernney, who is not only the wife of Jimmy Kimmel, the late night host, but also, I believe, the executive producer of the program and his agent, manager, and all that.

And recently on a podcast, Ms.

Mcernney, a St.

Louis native said that uh she has broken ties and lost relationships with her family in St.

Louis because her family generally supports Donald Trump and you know her husband's at loggerheads with the White House.

Uh we have all read and talked about that.

Uh under any circumstances s should somebody break ties with a family member because of politics?

It's it's hard to say that, you know, to make a blanket uh statement about that kind of thing, but having quite a few years on Mrs.

Kimmel, uh and she was a uh speaking of the Sisters of St.

Joseph of Caarondelet, she is a graduate of of St.

Joseph's Academy on Lindbergh.

Um and she had a fine career before she married Jimmy Kimmel.

And I certainly also understand her defending her husband.

um when it comes to some of the statements that she made, she sent a she sent a 10 point um email to her relatives about please don't, you know, just begging them not to vote for Donald Trump.

And I don't know that that would work in any family, you know, and and she said, "It's a matter of values."

She said, "They're choosing Donald Trump over my husband and our family."

And I that's where I think I would have to respectfully step aside and say I don't know of anyone with whom you know that even even between husbands and wives, everybody whose values align 100%.

And these are the people who have and and I'm talking out of the top of my head because I don't know the particulars.

I don't know what was said.

But I'm just saying in general, these are the people who were there for your first and second birthday party and every birthday party you've ever had and supported you when you were in the play and you know this is your family.

>> But you that's just it.

But you don't know but Yeah.

But you don't know that family dynamic.

That's why I would kind of like, look, I don't know what your dynamic is with your parents that you would actually not want to be around them over this.

Now, I know that her husband got caught up in this tornado of back and forth that's going on in the United States, but okay, if somebody came at you, Wendy, in your family, maybe not your parents, but in your family, and said like, "You know what?

I'm glad you all got defunded.

In fact, I want all PBS to just go out of business."

Well, I'm not going to their house for Thanksgiving dinner.

You know, I'm I'm kind of like saying, "Oh, okay.

I hear you.

>> I understand this, but but I would I understand what you're saying.

>> I would I I would too.

And because these things are this is the way we're designed today.

There are flash points.

It's But then it dies down.

>> But this is family.

But that's what I'm saying.

>> And here's my position on this.

I don't have I don't begin to think that I have the right to tell anybody how they should relate to their family.

What you don't do is talk about it in public media like she did >> and you put it out there.

That's that the old black.

You don't air your dirty laundry in public.

So she made the issue out of this.

That's right.

And then wants to look like a victim.

>> All she'd had to do was say, "Mom, dad, I don't agree with you anymore.

It's going to be a terrible Christmas, terrible Thanksgiving.

We're not coming."

That's your own business.

That's your family.

But then you talk about it in the media.

that people got free.

You're you get a free shot.

>> This is a this we're here for a a very little while.

And in that last moment, I don't think any of us is going to be sitting around thinking about the presidents that divided the nation.

Least of all, Donald J. Trump.

That's just my opinion.

>> Well, it was uh John Stewart, the comedian, who recently said the opposite.

He said he has an uncle who's a big Trumper and they don't agree on anything, but he loves him.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah.

And it's easy.

No, but but you're also not saying this.

>> Wait, you also I'm >> You're saying that she doesn't love her parents.

>> See, that's what I'm saying.

But Stewart seem to take a different family.

She might love I just cannot be around you.

Well, >> shut up about it.

Don't put it out.

I'm just saying that I'm not going to condemn her for what she did.

>> And her her husband's not a >> I'll condemn her for going public with it.

Yeah.

I'll criticize for that.

>> Her husband's not a Ukrainian freedom fighter.

Okay.

He's a stand up comic.

Could you stand up to the heat that he's under right now?

Be honest with yourself.

Could you?

>> I will take his pay.

>> No, I'm not talking.

Oh, wait a minute.

I'm not talking about Hey, speaking of Thanksgiving meals, how about Ulyssse Grant?

Julia Dent's brothers fought for the uh the South.

I wonder how their Thanksgiving was.

>> It wasn't very pleasant.

>> Let's get to the letters.

Brandy and cigars.

My name is Marian Steen and I'm a local artist and would love to submit a painting to be considered for the Donnybrook show.

Hey Marian, that's great.

You're an Olivettte and we're going to tell you uh we'll give you the address in just a moment.

How's that sound?

Maybe I've missed a show where you discuss President Trump's use of the Fbomb while speaking to reporters on camera, but maybe you haven't discussed it, but on June 24th he used it when discussing Israel and Iran.

And on October 17th, he used it when discussing Venezuela.

That from Linda Saraphini of South St.

Lewis.

We also heard from the very wise Ted Scitec of Dardene Prairie.

I look forward to each Thursday night to watching the newest episode of Donny brook and Last Call on YouTube.

Your esteemed journalist panel keeps me completely engaged with honest, researched, and meaningful discussion on a wide array of hot topics devoid of suspicious spin doctoring.

God bless everyone who makes Donnybrook and PBS worthy of watching.

Thank you, Ted.

You can be like Ted and write us with compliments.

Care of Nine PBS 3655 Olive Street 63108.

And if you have artwork or comments, send it to Donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

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