Well, if you don't know what fair is, you can't make it.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

>> Thank you very much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

As usual, we are just stacked with topics.

So, let's meet the panelists and then jump right in.

Wendy Wiese, the media veteran, along with Jamie Mowers, the owner and editor-inchief of the Webster Kirkwood Times.

Thanks for joining us, Jamie.

Hello, Sarah Fenske from the 314 podcast.

Also from St.

Louis magazine and of course her daily newsletter.

And from the St.

Louis American, Alvin Reid, the unofficial spokesperson representative ambassador of Kirkwood.

And I suspect we have a Kirkwood happy.

Yeah, we got a lot to talk about.

>> All right.

Except it looks like you're wearing Webster colors.

>> Well, it's Thanksgiving.

I This is the fall foliage.

Everyone knows I'm truly uh red and white.

You might want to stay home next Tuesday.

It's a home game.

It always usually depends on the weather.

Hey, I want to ask you about reports this week.

um who reported the Business Journal that the $3 billion plan for Lambert, which is to really expand and improve our airport, doesn't include something that Enterprise Rental, the world's largest rental car company in our backyard, is looking for.

And that would that would be the ability of customers at Lambert to get off the plane and walk to a rental car.

Um, currently customers at Lambert, those who fly, have to wait for the shuttle bus, then go two miles away to budget or national or enterprise or the others.

Do you think, Alvin, that we should go back to the drawing board and make sure that we're kind of up to snuff with most airports and allow the passengers to walk to the rental car?

>> Uh, we should not go back because this plan has been out there at least five years.

um the retiring director Rhonda, I'll just call her Rhonda.

I'm the buggy.

No.

Um she made sure that all media people saw it and invited you to meetings or came to your office like they did at the St.

Louis American.

This plan has been out there a long time.

I'm sorry that you're just now realizing this is the way it is, but this has got to wait.

We have a plan.

We're delivering on that plan.

Let's proceed with that plan.

So last week when you and I were squaring off about kicking the can down the road at Lambert about the retail operators and whether or not they should have any sort of allowances before or after the renovations now kicking the can down the road is okay.

Well, what it's not if you were going to say like you are we deciding how we're going to let's say we have a plan of where the vendors are going to be and after that's put into place, somebody comes along and says like I need more space or I need to be closer to the actual gates of the terminal or whatever, right?

>> No, I would say no to that.

So, I'm saying no to this.

I understand that there's major players in the St.

area as far as rental cars are concerned.

But I think this is where the civic responsibility comes in in that the most important thing we can do right now is fix this airport.

>> And I understand that in Jacob's story he pointed out that Ronda Hamburgg said that this is terminal only.

This you know that this plan has to do with terminal only and everything else can you know that that can wait.

I feel like if you are if you are renovating your home, this is sort of like not changing the light bulbs or have not getting different light fixtures.

You've you're already completely changing and renovating your home.

I I think it's I think it's I think it's a waste of incredible goodwill on the part of Enterprise.

You know, let's let's keep Enterprise happy.

We have so few people to keep happy these days.

Let's keep >> Enterprise at the last five years.

They they said according to the story they have they have made this clear.

They just thought it was going to be taken care of and it wasn't because it wasn't seen as ter I I don't know where the disconnect came from.

>> Yeah.

I mean they have a seat at the table like there aren't they even on the airport commission.

I was I was surprised that this was coming up this late in the game because I am very sympathetic to Alvin's point of view here.

It's like this project has been talked about and talked about and what we're going to go back to the the drawing board when we're just getting ready to go.

It's It's very frustrating.

I hadn't even realized it's been so long since I've been willing to rent a car.

I hate doing it so much because you have to get on this shuttle.

And so, they make a good point.

It is a terrible part of the travel.

>> No, that's true.

And and and and frequent passengers know the airports that allow you to walk straight to your rental car, like Salt Lake City.

You can get off at the gate and then just go straight to your rental car.

You don't even have to see an agent or anything.

It's very easy.

That's That's the way most airports I think most I don't think most airports are like that.

>> I don't either.

I think according to the report they are a giant number that >> Well, I mean, you could get off the plane and walk to your car in Little Rock or the We're not We're bigger than that.

I I think of major airports.

I don't think I just can't remember that many.

I just go right to >> I believe that was in the reporting there by Jacob Kern of the uh business.

He said most Yes.

All right.

Okay.

We we and I was I was intrigued by our our our class our you know because we're not a mega airport.

We are a large airport.

So >> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> How do you feel Jamie?

>> So I'm more with Wendy on this.

I know the plan has been out for a long time, but I just really think that this is that the that our airport should make it a priority because I know when people visit and have to rent a car, even I have a couple of friends who are flight attendants who were, you know, commuting and all of that stuff and they were talking about the parking and the rental cars being such a nightmare that they wanted to actually change their base because it was so bad.

and like they're very familiar with a lot of airports.

So, I I understand, you know, but I hope that our airport does make this a priority hopefully soon.

>> Wendy, let me ask you about uh St.

Louis County, which announced this week that uh the services in the county uh are going to be moving to St.

An, that's St.

Louis County Services, not the county council.

That'll go to the police department in uh Clayton.

The jail is going to remain in Clayton.

Um, but the county executive will go to Northwest Plaza where already we have human services as well as elections.

Any problems with that?

>> I I think once upon a time I would have had a problem with it, but I do not have a problem with it because they have they're looking at hundred million dollars in terms of renovations to the current uh county government center.

Hund 100 million.

This is on top of an 80 plus million dollar, you know, budget shortfall.

So, if this makes things easier for the county, if they are thinking this far outside the box, uh Sam Page, Doug Moore, the county council, I am all for it.

>> Okay.

U Steve Stinger is out there sitting someplace thinking, I told you.

>> Yeah.

>> No, I mean, yeah.

Steve Stinger Memorial uh County Center.

I I mean I don't have a problem with it.

It just made too much sense tell you the truth.

And um you know it those county buildings and where it's been for so long and they're talking about how much like you say how much it cost to fix but also will it ever be fixed?

You know it's kind of you know so I think that I think that would be the prudent thing to do.

And you made a good point that I hadn't thought of but I feel the exact same way.

For some reason, this would have really really bothered me in the past and now it just doesn't.

I don't >> to It makes me kind of sad.

I feel like we've gone from a situation where you used to go to like downtowns and deal with things and now it's just a series of strip malls because people want easy parking.

They don't want to have to like pay a parking meter.

They want to just they'd rather go to St.

An even if it's farther than their house than to be in the middle of downtown Clayton or to be in the middle of downtown St.

Louis.

And I think it's it's something is lost when we're just going to these very car ccentric type developments.

I also have to wonder about public transit.

Is it as good getting to Staint Anne?

I you know this >> the Metrolink does go right by uh the St.

Louis County government building and you see every day the workers going back and forth and so some of those workers are going have to buy automobiles or >> that seems like a huge problem to me.

like if that is if that's something where the county workers are being inconvenienced and there used to be an easy solution and there isn't.

>> Yes.

Yeah.

That like you said that's going to have to be figured out.

Um I Yeah.

And like on the flip side of what you're saying, I also think there are some people who will be further out obviously from the Saint Anne location who just don't want to drive that far.

I mean really because there's also like a core group of St.

Louis's who if it's like more than 10 or 15 minutes they're like I'm not going.

I'm just not going.

I mean they'll have to but >> Well, you only go once a year, right?

>> I know.

But I want to I I am going to stick up a little bit for Chipotle and Starbucks and CJ Mugs.

I think that some of these little eeries around downtown Clayton may suffer if three to 500 employees are moving out.

>> I think this is very bad for Clayton.

Like this is this is very bad.

like that downtown the last thing it needs is less vitality.

Like it already feels like tumble weeds blowing through.

>> I think if you took the county government center out of Clayton that opens up Clayton to be like a Kirkwood or these places that are transforming their downtowns and making them little kind of like entertainment and restaurant center >> maybe.

So someone was quoted maybe a professor at Wu that it's the most valuable piece of property in the region.

I don't know.

You're right next to the jail.

who wants to build no wait.

I think ultimately the jail and everything will move.

I think this is the first step on on all of this moving.

I don't think the jail and the judicial center will be there forever either.

I I guess we should point that out.

>> But we can't scream about the budget shortfalls and then, you know, when they do come up with an idea that is sound, maybe not terribly popular or perfect in every way, we squawk about it.

>> Sarah Fenske, let me ask you about uh money in the city.

You know, we had a pandemic, COVID pandemic in this country.

And then four years ago, money was sent to municipalities and counties to help deal with all the problems associated with the pandemic.

And St.

Louis City got four years ago, $490 million.

And the reports this week are that just about half of it has been spent with one year to go.

There's a deadline, another year.

Uh, isn't it kind of crazy that government officials are having trouble spending millions of dollars when in fact a city like St.

Louis has huge problems with water manes and lead abatement and more?

>> Yeah, I mean, I get that argument.

I get why this was an eye-catching story.

I will say they have all of it allocated.

They had to say a year ago where each penny was going to go and it is all like spent.

It just is not actually spent yet.

But I will say I think this is what happens when you have a situation where people are terrified that things are going to go in the wrong direction and then their name is going to be in the newspaper.

And I'm speaking in part of the program that Mayor Tishara Jones had to try to revitalize North St.

Louis.

And they had these preliminary awards where they're like, "We're thinking about giving of this 37 million.

We'll give a million here.

We'll give two million there."

And the Post Dispatch did a very good story pointing out that some of these things were going to non-existent businesses.

And then they did something like five or six more stories.

And I can't tell you how many people I run into who are absolutely convinced that money went out the door.

And all sorts of people had their hand in the till.

None of that money ever went out.

But it was this giant black eye.

It may have cost to Jones the the election.

It made everyone very paranoid.

Everyone wanted to sign off on things and make sure they weren't letting money go out that shouldn't have gone out.

Not the worst impulse to have people looking that carefully.

Now they're going to have to speed up.

>> Well, like with the Ram settlement money, we were talking about, you know, a couple months ago, different bucket of money, dude.

Same thing.

Spend the money now.

I'm You've worn me out.

I'm just I'm done.

Just spend the money.

You have the money.

Spend it.

I mean, >> they don't not complain if there's a little fraud.

You'll be like, "That's okay.

I WANTED TO GIVE THAT FRAUD fraud they'll when this money goes out okay when it go with >> every eye dotted every tea crossed somebody's going to find something about it you know somebody's going to take care of the rental car company at the airport safeguard a situation where it'll be something will come along we're like oh no that's not right blah blah blah spend the money but this takes out we're we're not considering it's it is it is not a very sexy thing to talk about, but the administrative level of distributing these funds is paramount and we don't have the people.

The fact that the alderman had to revisit the the uh the the stipulation that had something to do with Oh, I'm sorry.

Forgive me.

I'm having a I'm having an elderly moment.

But one thing was was was found to be something that what you know, you couldn't do it.

And so it had to go back to the alderman, the board of aldermen.

And so you had all of these just snags that would have probably been alleviated if you had the right people in TALKING ABOUT LIKE WHY why reinvent the wheel?

Why not just supplement the programs that we know will work like new sidewalks, new roads, new water manes which are all broken, lead abatement and simple things that we are good at.

>> That's not going to solve the problem.

I mean we talk about not having enough people.

We don't have enough road people.

So they have all these projects that are kind of like backed up and it's like you can only work so fast and they got to spend all the money by this deadline.

So they had to invest in some things where it was like okay we're creating a new program.

>> Do do you hear about data centers like being uh behind the times?

They're not getting built because there's no labor.

I don't think so.

>> Do they have to follow the same rules government follows where you have to get three bids and you have to do competitive?

They don't.

>> Whose problem is that that they're getting the the three bids and all that?

This is get the money up.

I haven't heard that other cities have had problems with this.

I haven't heard the cities >> I would not have I would not have a problem spending $230 million if I was the mayor.

I I'm not kidding.

I'd say okay.

And once the haggling went along too far, I'd say like this will just be Reed's folly or Reed save St.

because the dough would be going when Aldridge to implement like >> when Rashene Aldridge says we've got to do something about this bottleneck >> then you've got to it is a real bottleneck.

>> I take briefcases of money to the people and tell them fill these potholes, fix these streets.

We're being simple.

We're being to the point.

We're getting the job done.

It's >> within a year danger of losing this money.

Speak speaking of uh data centers, Wendy, Festus is considering a multi-billion dollar data center on uh in in some area that's currently owned by three or four land owners who have a lot of property and it's about 30 miles south of St.

Louis, not too far from the Mississippi River.

So, they got a lot of water.

Um if you were in Fesus, would you approve this project?

>> I think I would.

And I I just I think we we love to tell other municipalities how how to uh how to operate and I I just don't think we can do that.

If if Fesus appears to be as gung-ho as they are, uh it even appeared from the story that St.

Charles County might revisit the idea of of a data center.

So if Fesus is if Fesus is all in and okay with it, then let's get behind them.

>> I could not argue with this more.

>> I know that.

Yeah.

I think this is something where for once can we just look at something this big regionally.

The East the East West Gateway Council of Governments is trying to provide some advice on this and I would love to see them take an even more proactive role because this goes down to our water supply which is the thing that if St.

Louis has any future as like a big growing city, it's going to be because we have this amazing water supply.

It goes down to our utility rights.

If Fesus is like, "Yeah, hey, come in build this giant data center."

that could jack up the utility rates across the state for all of us.

We all need to be thinking about these things, not just, oh, let's let Festus have this because they want to do it.

>> But why weren't we thinking about it with the existing five or six data centers?

You know what I'm saying?

It's like, no, we should have.

I mean, the barn door is open, the animals are down the path, and now we're saying no more, you know.

>> No, no, because it's exploding now because artificial intelligence requires a gargantuan amount of electricity, right?

And so these companies which are basically fueling, you know, uh Meta and Google and the most profitable C companies in the history of the world, it seems um they're going to places that have low electricity rates like Missouri and lots of water.

So we've got a target right now on us and uh there's going to be a lot of promises made.

Oh, you'll get tax revenue.

But they don't mention well Memphis complains about the new pollution because they use gas generators down there and the electric rates will go up because there will be as Sarah says a pressure on the grid.

So the Amerens of the world are going to share the cost among everybody.

I would say hey let's slow down and let's uh let's see what you have to give.

What what are you going to do?

Are you going to be responsible meta for all increases in electric rates for the state?

>> I love this.

And if we could come in as a region and say, "We're talking with one unified voice.

You want to build a giant data center in St.

Louis beyond the couple we already just have.

Um, here's what you're going to do for the region."

And talk about it that way and think about what actually makes sense.

>> They'll go somewhere else.

I >> And great.

I'm happy if they go somewhere else.

Reading about how this has played out in Memphis.

I don't want it here.

>> I I was all for putting it in Fesus and y'all got TO CHANGE MY MIND.

I LIKE, "OH, poor Festus."

No, no.

I'm going down.

Look, if Festus wants a data center, Festus can have a data center and we'll just have to keep an eye on the electric rates and and all that.

>> Keep an eye on them just like we're doing in >> Yeah, we'll get to that.

We'll get to that.

But but why don't we go to that?

We'll go to that right now.

What about those Kirkwood electric rates?

Uh they're going up 14% Jamie.

And in fact, that's higher than any other area in the state right now.

Kirkwood is kind of weird because it has its own utility, but there have been some financial problems recently and so the costs have been passed on to the rateayers.

Is it time for Kirkwood to say, "Hey, uh, let's merge with Amar and let Ameren take care of this."

>> So, I would say no.

Number one, because I I feel Alvin can probably speak better to this, but I do feel like Kirkwood and Webster for that matter, they like local control.

They like to, you know, we like to have keep things close to the vest.

I also think that Kirkwood keeping its own electric department has been historically very advantageous and rates have been lower.

This is a recent thing.

I know obviously it's rate increases never go well wherever they are, whenever they are.

Um Kirkwood has to work to, you know, to replenish the reserves.

Now, I don't see this being a a forever thing.

I do think hopefully eventually the rates in Kirkwood will come back down.

Um and and that will be, like I said, and things will balance out.

Um I don't think Kirkwood's personally ready to say yes, let's let's go to Ameren.

Um I think they've always kind of liked having local control, but that's just my thought.

>> All right.

My fear is this that it the rate will never come back down.

I I think once it's set where it is now, it's just forever going to be there because who knows, we might build a data center in Kirkwood.

And I think that and I don't want, you know, I I like having a Kirkwood electric uh department, having our own and and purchasing the electricity from Amaran because for one thing, and this actually happened, uh tree limb came down and took out the line to our house.

It was fixed literally within hours as opposed to days.

And I think that's one of the problems that you might run into if we didn't have our own.

Um, this crisis is not really about electricity.

This crisis is about leadership.

And I think that the people of Kirkwood have been let down by the uh existing, you know, city council and the mayor in that all of a sudden this no one knew that this surplus was gone and within weeks it's been voted upon that that's going to be a 14% rise.

14% is uh ina in inconvenient to some.

Doesn't mean anything to others in Kirkwood, but it means a lot to seniors.

It means a lot to people that are are quite frankly do not have the money to afford a 14% rate increase.

This is terrible.

And I just don't think it has been answered to yet by our city council.

>> And that's why you're wearing the Webster colors.

>> I do.

I have I'm not advocating Kirkwood and a lot of the people involved, they know I love and respect them, but this is this is not good.

>> Final topic.

Let's talk about Matt Thornhill.

Jamie Mowers.

Matt is a judge in St.

Charles and he's been disciplined by a higher body because he was wearing an Elvis costume on the bench and playing in a court of law.

Jailhouse Rock.

He's a big Elvis fan apparently.

So, his punishment is kind of weird.

He's going to have six months off and then he comes back for 18 months and then he has to leave.

Have you ever heard of anything like that?

>> No.

No.

And I mean, I love Night Court, but this is not Judge Harry Stone's courtroom, okay?

This is just not.

So, I don't think it was appropriate.

I do think he should be punished, but I think he needs to go now.

I don't understand this whole, well, we'll suspend him for 6 months, then he's coming back for 18 months, and then he gets to retire.

What is this?

I boy I I think also with the follow-up story that the Post Dispatch dropped today, uh my jaw dropped.

I thought they gave this guy a sweet deal where he gets to keep his full retirement by getting to come back after his suspension.

>> Um and I was like, I don't think I like this.

But man, when I heard these latest allegations that he called the chair of the St.

Charles County Republican Party to ask him his take on a case where this guy might end up being sucked into the case as a witness or even a party to the litigation.

I would be shocked if this guy doesn't get disbarred.

Like that is a huge no no for a judge to do that.

It makes you no longer believe in justice.

I think they need to revoke this deal now that this has come out if it turns out to be true.

And I think they need to get him out of there immediately.

>> Yes.

>> I think there are I think there are different levels.

I, you know, I thought at first I thought, okay, he's just being persecuted because he was kind of being silly in a place where you don't look for silliness, you know, when lives are hanging in balance.

But um if he had maybe stopped at some point along the line instead of just continuing to lean into the uh really questionable behavior on the part of a jurist, I think he he would have been all right.

But as I mean for an Elvis costume on Halloween that was where I thought it was all going and that's you know you can't throw a man off the bench for wearing >> I think so he became a >> yeah I mean it's supposed to be very serious that job and any sense that the judge is less than serious is not good when you bring a matter in front of him and by the way this has made international news it was in the Daily Mail it was in the Sun both newspapers in London uh the New York Post covered it started in newspapers around the country.

Again, another clown, >> but you said that this this is not completely unique.

You said that there are other judges who >> I've seen I I I there were photo when when Kim Gardner was going through her legal problems.

Mike Noble, the judge in her case, had a go Navy sign on his bench.

And I think that's inappropriate.

I >> I mean, that's to me that's so small potato.

Sure.

Like, you know, >> unless you're from the army.

>> Well, sure.

But to me, this is just it's so bad.

And I think it speaks to Missouri has always been very proud of its judges.

We have this Missouri plan where in the big counties there's a nonpartisan way that we appoint them.

I think St.

Charles has grown so fast.

We need to fold them into the Missouri plan and no longer do the judge election.

>> Yes.

And I know St.

Charles judges are not under that right now, but I feel like they should be held to the same standards.

But doesn't he have any grace period at all because because of the overlap?

>> I in this case, no.

Because like like Sarah said with the story that dropped today, he needs to be gone right now.

>> I agree with that.

What the today's you know that Yeah.

immediately.

I will say this that okay, we're talking all right.

We're talking about judges.

I when I was covering the Kim Gardner was taking the governor to trial jury you know selection that process people were showing up with shirts that said I'm late because I don't want to be here.

The whole courtroom decorum is gone.

>> Thank you Alvin.

Hey let's go to the old mailbag and see what people had to say about last week's program.

Bill made a very good comment that the Democrats would win more points by letting the ACA subsidies expire, leaving the Republicans holding the bag.

Charlie then made a snide remark that Bill was only interested in getting his daughter home from Austin.

That took away from the credence of his comment and was rude.

Thank you to Carrie McIll of St.

Albins's.

We also heard from Dave Oddinger, a e ameritus professor of art at Mckendry.

I believe the suggestion of using Fontbond University's dormitories for the homeless has merit, but so at Alexian Brothers Hospital on Broadway.

It has individual rooms, kitchens, and healthc care facilities.

And a Karowski of South County wrote, "It's always great to see Joe on the panel.

He provides muchneeded balance and common sense to the discussion."

Thank you.

You can write us care of Nine PBS 3655 Olive Street, St.

Louis, Missouri 63108.

Those emails at donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

On social media, use Donnybrookst.

Call the Neline 314-512994. and check us out on your favorite podcast source.

We have the NinePBS channel on YouTube.

A program is called Last Call where we broach topics not available or not uh no room for in the first 30 minutes.

And this week we'll talk about the mayor's plea for big businesses to get more involved in downtown St.

Louis.

That and more.

Well, we hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Thanks to Jamie Mowers of the Webster Kirkwood Times for sharing the stage with us.

We'll see you in two weeks.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of NinePBS.

Hey, it's